WestWind Airlines

Bob Sturm:

It appears that we are well into a new generation of pilots; those who's only feedback is when there is a problem.  Based on the lack of feedback here on the forum, I would guess that very few have installed any of the scenery that Ed and I have provided. However, realizing that we will never know who is taking advantage of our work, we continue sacrificing our own personal flying time for the benefit of the VA as a whole, and hope that at least a few appreciate our efforts.

 I find this to be audacious of the generation of people who take and rarely return. Is it really that hard to communicate, other than when you do dislike something? The management of this airline goes out of its way to try and communicate through multiple forms with its member pilots. They make heroic efforts to accommodate pilot’s needs and concerns. There are people who have spent lots of money for no other reason than to make products for free, that member pilots can enjoy. In the end feedback is generally one of three forms, managers thanking other managers for their contribution (patting each other on the back), bug reports (which I don't mind), or critical (often demanding) feedback as to why product X does not contain feature Y.

 Sorry if I am discouraged by the above, but it really is not the foundation that WestWind was based on. People are what is important and the two way community feedback is what drives the family like atmosphere. Remove that and we teeter toward becoming just another VA.

Bob Sturm:

I did the install this morning and discovered the problem.  In the installer, "SimObjects" is misspelled as "SimObjetcs". as a result a new folder by that name  was created. The installer package will need to be recompiled after the spelling is corrected. In the mean time, if you can manually locate that folder (located under ..\Microsoft Flight Simulator X) and copy the entire \Aircraft folder (and sub folders) to the \SimObjects folder; then delete the misspelled folder.

I am recompiling a new installer with simobjects spelled correctly. I will push it to my skydrive then it will be based on when others will have time to download it from my Skydrive and send it to the server. Until then you can do as Bob suggested. http://cid-839fbc8d9e9023fb.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Public?uc=1

 

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-KenG

Thank you for your time finding this Bob.I did this download this morning before work and was kind of in a hurry or i might have found this myself.

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Monster Driver
P255 charter

Ken,your link worked great,all is good,it installed like a champ.Now ill go try the new beast out.

Sorry if im one of the ones that only post if theres a issue.Guess i go with the old saying,"no news is good news"But i do really appreciate all the time everyone puts into this VA makeing it what it is.My hats off to you all and a big salute as well.

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Monster Driver
P255 charter

Scott Jones:

Sorry if im one of the ones that only post if theres a issue.Guess i go with the old saying,"no news is good news"But i do really appreciate all the time everyone puts into this VA makeing it what it is.My hats off to you all and a big salute as well.

Not a problem Scott. Issues/bugs are one of the purposes of the forum.  I was referring to those who are constantly asking for aircraft, repaints, or scenery; but never ask if there is anything they can do to help.  Nor do they bother to thank the individuals who do the work. Ken's reference was to the fact that nobody volunteered to beta test the 727.  It can be frustrating for those few of us that do all of the work for this VA, never knowing if what we are doing is appreciated. All of this work is extremely time consuming. Even the hub managers and directors jobs take away from personal and flying time. So, just like in the real world, when the boss or fellow workers are ragging on you, frustration sets in and sometime fuses get short. At least in the real world, there is a paycheck to help smooth things over. I have yet to find a bank that will cash my "virtual" paychecks.

As for your issue with the install of the 727; that was a good catch.   When you described it, I pretty much had a good idea what to look for, since I did something similar packaging one of my sceneries.

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Bob S.
Senior Command Captain
E.V.P. Scenery

I truly understand what you are saying about the time envolved with what you guys do.If i had the knowledge to do repaints and stuff like that ide jump in both feet first and help out.As for the beta test,i believe i was in a huge computer issue at that time and it was in the shop being repaired or i would have been there for ya.Anyways,like i said before,hats off to you few guys that put the hours in to do that stuff.I know i appreciate it and im sure most others do.If theres anything i can do in the future to help out just give me a yell.If im not working im here so dont hesitate

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Monster Driver
P255 charter

Ok,i really hate to post and ask for assistance on this,its a little embarassing.After 2 nights on the gate,ive managed to get flames in all 3 engines one time.I have read the procdure many times on starting this bad boy but i still cant get it.I have no idea how i did it the one time,was luck i guess.Any chance one of you pros could give me a little walk threw ?I like the idea of haveing to start it though,i get tired of poping into the game to find myself sitting in the terminal building,lol.Other than that i love the looks of this plane,very cool.Thanks again for any help.

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Monster Driver
P255 charter

Scott Jones:

Ok,i really hate to post and ask for assistance on this,its a little embarassing.After 2 nights on the gate,ive managed to get flames in all 3 engines one time.I have read the procdure many times on starting this bad boy but i still cant get it.I have no idea how i did it the one time,was luck i guess.Any chance one of you pros could give me a little walk threw ?I like the idea of haveing to start it though,i get tired of poping into the game to find myself sitting in the terminal building,lol.Other than that i love the looks of this plane,very cool.Thanks again for any help.

Well, don't feel bad Scott, I've got the same problem.  I flew this aircraft last night for the first time, and like you, after quite a bit of trying different things I managed to get it started, but I don't know how. The method I used last night didn't work this morning. The instructions don't make any sense to me ( I always use the "Control-E" method of starting jets and that doesn't work either). The switches on the overhead that I would assume are the N1, N2, N3 fuel flow referred to in the instructions do not work. Hopefully someone will come to our rescue.

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Bob S.
Senior Command Captain
E.V.P. Scenery

A lot of FS9 planes seem to have this problem in FSX.  I'm not sure what causes it, or even what controls how these systems are modeled - is that in the .air file or is it all in the aircraft.cfg?

One thing you can do is load a default FSX plane, start the engines, then switch planes to the one you want to fly.  That will work, although it's kind of unsatisfying.

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Scott M. Stone
WWA1712 - Cat-III - Director of Aircraft
VATSIM 1018857 - C1 Controller - KZSE
Private Pilot - ASEL + Complex + IFR (almost)

CTRL+SHFT+F4 will make sure that all of the fuel valves are open

On the lower right side of the panel turn the engines (upper switch) and generators (lower switch) OFF

CTRL+E to start the engine

Wait.. The JT8 engines take awhile to spool up so be patient, you should see the N1 slowly start to creep up then the EGT will light off. Keep on waiting as this has to happen with the #2 and #3 engine as well. I usually use this time to program the INS. By the time I have finished programing my route in the INS the Flight Engineer has all 3 engines started and the generators turned on for me. Manually starting this airplane is just a PITA.

 

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-KenG

Ken G:

CTRL+SHFT+F4 will make sure that all of the fuel valves are open

On the lower right side of the panel turn the engines (upper switch) and generators (lower switch) OFF

CTRL+E to start the engine

Wait.. The JT8 engines take awhile to spool up so be patient, you should see the N1 slowly start to creep up then the EGT will light off. Keep on waiting as this has to happen with the #2 and #3 engine as well. I usually use this time to program the INS. By the time I have finished programing my route in the INS the Flight Engineer has all 3 engines started and the generators turned on for me. Manually starting this airplane is just a PITA.

 

I did that last night, sisnc that is the way I always start multi-engine jets;  it didn't work.  Tried again this morning...didn't work.  Tried again after reading your post, and it still does not work.  The N1 gauge creeps up to about 8%, at which time the EGT gauge goes to 100 Degrees, then both gauge drop back to 0.  Thats the end of it.  Nothing else happens, no matter how long the wait. CTRL+SHFT+F4 was use to turn on all fuel valves.  the Fuel Valves toggle switch on the upper panel is ON. All engine switches OFF.  Check and double check!  No luck!

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Bob S.
Senior Command Captain
E.V.P. Scenery

Bob Sturm:

Ken G:

CTRL+SHFT+F4 will make sure that all of the fuel valves are open

On the lower right side of the panel turn the engines (upper switch) and generators (lower switch) OFF

CTRL+E to start the engine

Wait.. The JT8 engines take awhile to spool up so be patient, you should see the N1 slowly start to creep up then the EGT will light off. Keep on waiting as this has to happen with the #2 and #3 engine as well. I usually use this time to program the INS. By the time I have finished programing my route in the INS the Flight Engineer has all 3 engines started and the generators turned on for me. Manually starting this airplane is just a PITA.

 

I did that last night, sisnc that is the way I always start multi-engine jets;  it didn't work.  Tried again this morning...didn't work.  Tried again after reading your post, and it still does not work.  The N1 gauge creeps up to about 8%, at which time the EGT gauge goes to 100 Degrees, then both gauge drop back to 0.  Thats the end of it.  Nothing else happens, no matter how long the wait. CTRL+SHFT+F4 was use to turn on all fuel valves.  the Fuel Valves toggle switch on the upper panel is ON. All engine switches OFF.  Check and double check!  No luck!

Bob et al.,

 Well I hate to say this, but "checked and can not duplicate." 

 I started with the default CRJ700, shutdown all engines, turned off the APU, turned off the generators, turned off the battery, and turned off all the fuel valves. I then changed into the B727-200F turned on the battery, and without doing anything else hit CTRL+E and the engines hummed to life in about 20 seconds each. To make sure there was no other problems I cut the fuel to the #2 engine after start shutting it off, allowed the #3 engine to start then started the #2 engine using CTRL+E then 2. #2 fired up like a charm. 

 I have also gone straight into the B727-200F before, shutdown engine and restarted with no problems as well as used a saved "previous flight" where the engines were shutdown.

I use FSX SP2 and FSUIPC. In FSUIPC I have the battery set to never run dry. Need to for the INS or you will run down while aligning.

 Sorry I could not be more help.

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-KenG

Thanks for trying Ken!   I'll play around with it and post here if I figure it out.  Done for tonight!

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Bob S.
Senior Command Captain
E.V.P. Scenery

I too have come up empty handed as of yet trying this way and any other way to fire this pup up.I am determined now to never do anything else in FSX untill i have conqured this beast,lol.I will tame the wild B727-200F if its the last thing i do

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Monster Driver
P255 charter

Ken G:

Bob Sturm:

Ken G:

CTRL+SHFT+F4 will make sure that all of the fuel valves are open

On the lower right side of the panel turn the engines (upper switch) and generators (lower switch) OFF

CTRL+E to start the engine

Wait.. The JT8 engines take awhile to spool up so be patient, you should see the N1 slowly start to creep up then the EGT will light off. Keep on waiting as this has to happen with the #2 and #3 engine as well. I usually use this time to program the INS. By the time I have finished programing my route in the INS the Flight Engineer has all 3 engines started and the generators turned on for me. Manually starting this airplane is just a PITA.

 

I did that last night, sisnc that is the way I always start multi-engine jets;  it didn't work.  Tried again this morning...didn't work.  Tried again after reading your post, and it still does not work.  The N1 gauge creeps up to about 8%, at which time the EGT gauge goes to 100 Degrees, then both gauge drop back to 0.  Thats the end of it.  Nothing else happens, no matter how long the wait. CTRL+SHFT+F4 was use to turn on all fuel valves.  the Fuel Valves toggle switch on the upper panel is ON. All engine switches OFF.  Check and double check!  No luck!

Bob et al.,

 Well I hate to say this, but "checked and can not duplicate." 

 I started with the default CRJ700, shutdown all engines, turned off the APU, turned off the generators, turned off the battery, and turned off all the fuel valves. I then changed into the B727-200F turned on the battery, and without doing anything else hit CTRL+E and the engines hummed to life in about 20 seconds each. To make sure there was no other problems I cut the fuel to the #2 engine after start shutting it off, allowed the #3 engine to start then started the #2 engine using CTRL+E then 2. #2 fired up like a charm. 

 I have also gone straight into the B727-200F before, shutdown engine and restarted with no problems as well as used a saved "previous flight" where the engines were shutdown.

I use FSX SP2 and FSUIPC. In FSUIPC I have the battery set to never run dry. Need to for the INS or you will run down while aligning.

 Sorry I could not be more help.

 

I tried all of this.Started with the CRJ and shut it down cold dark dead.Jumped over to the 727 and that wasnt dead.Batterys were on,fuel was on,Gens on,everything.Got the tip to hiy Ctrl+E to start engines,Did it and got the same result,start to spool up N-1 gets to 8%,EGT gets to 15 degrees C. and then shut down.Think i got gremlins in my plane,gonna have to call Denver and have them ship me a new one,lol.I even deleted the whole 727 file and downloaded a whole new one thinking maybe it got corrupted or something,but still no go,same results.

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Monster Driver
P255 charter

I have had FS9 aircraft where once loaded the engines will fail and not start again. I have also had aircraft where I can not start the engines. Thus I test this before deciding to move forward on a project. Now it seems that there is a different scenario where I can start the engines on my computer and the same aircraft in FSX will not start on someone elses system.

 I have done some digging and all I could find is that the engines model in FSX is different that the engine model in FS9. That suggests why engines that work in FS9 will not work in FSX but does not address why engines on one install of FSX will not work the same on different installs of the same simulator.

 I do have one suggestion. Open the aircraft.cfg. Go to the electrical section and delete the starters. 

[electrical]
//BusType, MaxAmpLoad, MinVoltageBusTypes:0=MainBus,1=AvionicsBus,2=BatteryBus,3=HotBatteryBus,4-7=Generator/AlternatorBus(1-4)

max_battery_voltage=28
generator_alternator_voltage=30
max_generator_alternator_amps=300
engine_generator_map=1,1,1
electric_always_available=0

autopilot=    0, 5, 17
avionics_bus=    0, 10, 17
avionics=    1, 5, 17
pitot_heat=    0, 15, 17
additional_system=0, 20, 17
marker_beacon=    1, 2, 17
gear_warning=    0, 2, 17
fuel_pump=    0, 5, 17
starter1=    0, 20, 17
starter2=    0, 20, 17
starter3=    0, 20, 17
light_nav=    0, 5, 17
light_beacon=    0, 5, 17
light_landing=    0, 5, 17
light_taxi=    0, 5, 17
light_strobe=    0, 5, 17
light_panel=    0, 5, 17
auto_brakes=    0, 15, 17
hydraulic_pump=    0, 2, 17
fuel_transfer_pump=0, 5, 17

When you look at the FDE for the 747-400 I noticed that MS did not model the jet starters in the 747. Technically I believe that the 747 uses air from the APU to start the engines as opposed to electrically driven starters so that may be the reason. However, it is worth a shot. Also if the battery is showing below 20 volts then your aircraft will not start, so you may have run out of juice with everything on.

I have also been refining the electrical system on the 727 on my home system and you may note the items in red bold are changes I have made. You may or many not want to try the same changes.

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-KenG