WestWind Airlines

Mike,

 try KMIA we are pretty close to sea level and have many ILS approaches

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Phil Cohen WWA1573
Sr. Command Captain
EVP - Charter Operations
VP - Hub Ops - Europe & Pacific

Mike,

By short approach do you mean that the distance from the FAF to the runway is less than at other airports?  Most ILS approaches provide for glideslope intercept about 4 to 5 miles from the threshold.

In theory you should be able to go on up to 10,000 feet or so and just fly intercepts to the localizer, they normally have a range of about 25 miles.  Real world ATC is not supposed to give you an intercept angle of more than 30 degrees (although in visual conditions this rule doesn't apply).

I can't speak for the Gulfstream, but in the flight profiles section of my manual for the Challenger 300 for an ILS approach (1 or 2 engines operating):

Prior to commencing the approach (i.e. on vectors for the intercept, or just prior to the final turn to intercept:

Fly at Flaps 10 and no slower than Vref + 25.  I usually will fly this at 200 to 210 and flaps 10.

Glideslope Alive:

Gear Down and Flaps 20, min speed Ref + 15.  I'll slow to 175 or 170 here (since I can't select flaps 30 above 175).

1 dot below the glideslope:

Flaps 30, landing checklist, and slow to Vref

This is a pretty typical profile for a jet, of course depending on which jet the flap settings and speeds will vary, but hopefully it gives you a place to work from......I have intercepted at 250 knots and clean configuration, and the 300 usually will miss the localizer.  Usually it turns to sharply and starts to undershoot (it will overshoot if we have a strong wind pushing us across the localizer).  Generally it's better to be down around 210 to 200 knots for the intercept, you're turn radius is smaller, and your actual rate of turn will be higher.........

As Phil said MIA has good approaches at sea level (along with FLL, PBI and OPF), as does Boston (and PSM just to the north), any of the NYC airports (LGA, JFK, EWR and if you wanted TEB), PHL and ACY are pretty close too iirc........

I hope this helped!

Cheers,
 

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EHAM-YSSY B772LR

G550 Test Flight Report - 15 MAR 2008 (Flight 2)

Testing Localizer Capture

KMSY (B757-200) - Captures the localizer, albeit it is not very stable until late in the approach.

KMSY (G550) - Flaps 1 notch and 220 kts prior to intercept. Flaps 2 turning inbound on the localizer. Flaps full one dot above the GS. This seems to work. I did this twice with pretty good results.

New Issue: Nose Gear Collapse: I have had the nose gear collapse on me a couple of times at KMSY. This is a very bumpy airport. The plane bumps when I am not moving. I recommend cincreasing  the  max static compression ratio. I am guessing just make it 9.5). IIRC, that is what I did to fix this issue on the B752. [EDIT] The collapse occurred on first contact after touchdown. It seems like it happens when we have touchdown correspond with a bounce.

New Issue: Contact Points. Watching the landing from the tower view, it seems that the contact points are pretty far back of the main gear as the plane appears to touch down about a foot off the ground. This may be by design. I had to do that on the B752 for weight and balance purposes.

Comments:

Kim, to your point, I have always wondered exactly how this is done in the jets. I have operated lately under the premise that I should keep maximum speed until as late as possible to facilitate traffic flow. I have been getting good results in the B752 with intercept at 240 kts (to keep it under the speed limit) and flaps 5 degrees (as best I can tell). Flaps 10 inbound on the localizer. Flaps full less 1 notch and gear down one dot above the GS. It is hard to tell exactly what the flaps are set at in the B752 because the gauge is off.

Regarding the term short approach, at KMSY ILS RWY 28 we are cleared to 1500 feet when we are cleared for the approach. That puts us twice as close to the runway and an localizer beam half as wide as it would be if we were at 3000 ft. I know that I could start way out but I wanted to fly the MSFS ATC generated appraoch. That is what most of our pilots are going to be dealing with. The same comments apply to UTTT.

I am going to continue my testing--and I will try MIA--but it is looking like we might have this one licked. I recommend putting the flap settings and speeds in a reference file on the kneepad.

Note: I thought I was being very thorough in what I put in my reports--even to the point of feeling a little anal about it. As it turns out, if I had put the airpseed and flap settings in some of the earlier reports, it might have saved us all some work. Live and learn.

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

G550 Test Flight Report - 15 MAR 2008 (Flight 2) (This one's for you Phil!!)

Testing ILS Capture.

KMIA. Procedure: Localizer intercept at 200 kts, flaps 8, after intercept slow to 160 flaps 20, one dot above the GS slow to 165 and flaps 40. Results: Works good. The approach was ILS 30 which has an intercept of 1800 feet. It gives just a lttle more room to intercept the localizer and I think this is pretty typical.

Let's move on to something else.

Other issues:

Bounce: I think this is just FSX, but I get a lot of action on the struts pretty much all the time at all airports.

W KEY view (not VC as previously stated). Is it possible to use the PFD in this view instead of the Cessna guagues and to have it mounted to the left so it doesn't interfere with seeing the runway on landing? This is one of my biggest peeves with FSX. You pretty much have to use the W key to get rid of the instrument panel so you can see the runway to land. In FSX, they removed the ability to adjust the seats in the 2D view.

N1 Setting Knob. Can we either get an N1 setting knob or change the default value to something appropriate for TOGA?

 

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

G550 Test Flight Report 15 MAR 2008 (Flight Four)

Cross Country Test Flight
Weather: RWW

All systems nominal except as listed below.

Maximum Altitude. Took off with 50% fuel and climbed to FL450 (44% left). She was straining to get up there at 500 fpm. Once I levelled off, she achieved mach .85 ok. I wonder if the drag adjustments are causing this. Ken, you need to decide if you think this is normal. I can't remember why you increased the drag, but if it was due to the ILS capture we might be able to move it back to its original setting. It is just a thought. I don't know enough to say whether it is a good idea or not.

Speed Brake. On descent at about 270 kts (I think) deployment of the speed break caused a severe nose up condition resulting in a climb of about 400 ft (I think). It was enought to have ATC tell me I was above my assigned altitude.

Notes: The approach was visual. KMTV does not have an ILS. Handling was without incident. But they do have bisquits and gravy at Mom's Family Dining.

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

UPDATED: 16MAR08

Bug Report: This is what I am tracking for bugs on the G550:

1. Climb to Altitude - Fix Critical = reduce drag
2. Spoiler Pitch - Fix Critical
3. Gear Collapsing - Fix Critical
4. Gear Bounce - Noncritical Fix
   
5. Autopilot - Noncritical Fix.
6. W Key - NonCritical
7. Airspeed Tape - NonCritical nofix
   
8. AoA Indicator - Noncritical nofix
9. N1 Setting - Noncritical nofix
10. Engine Quiting - Noncritical nofix - autostart not authorized.
11. Landing Gear Indicators - Fixed in v1.3 used different gauge 
12. Radio - Fixed -> Larger popup in v1.3
    
13. Overspeed Warning - Fixed -> Overspeed warning from FSX seems to come on a appropriate time. 
14. Fuel Burn - Fixed
    

Well items are coming off the bug sheet that is always good news. Some new items have also been added, but at least the autopilot has moved off the #1 spot.

Mike your reports are helpful and the reporting is good. The autopilot needed some work regardless on the ILS and I also now believe that part of the initial overshoot is due to the sensitivity of the MFD gauge. If you watch the #1 needle on the MFD the aircraft does an excellent job of generally pointing itself toward the needle with a little correction. While a real world ILS does not activate the course indicator needle having it in FSX is nice because what I expect to see, the aircraft adjusting course +- 5 degrees to the location of the ILS is happening. Another thing that may help is the bank selector should now be active in the panel.

The Gear are located due to weight and balance. FSX has a hard time simulating the G550 due to the huge wing that is on this airplane. In the aircraft model and the flight dynamics file everything gets based on what the original modeler (Liader Designs) choose for a center reference. I am also restricted in that FSX believes that all wings should be referenced at the front leading edge. Thus to push the Cg closer to 1/4 LEMAC I had to push the fuel and the center of balance back. With the landing gear in their original location this caused a nose up condition. Thus I had to move the landing gear back 10' from where they are modeled on the physical model. I also wondering if the original modeler actually modeled the size (i.e. length) of a G550. After working with the flight dynamics of this aircraft so extensively the airplane looks more like it is a G450 which makes all of the sense in the world why the flight dynamics made for a G550 are about 10' off of the visual model.

As for gear collapsing I will go in and stiffen up the gear some more. I did stiffen them as the gear was collapsing on landing with autobreaks, I will beef up the suspension some more. I should be able to dampen out the bounce as well.

N1 nothing I can do about that. If I change to the B737 ECIAS so you can read the N1 setting then I loose the flaps display. I also end up with this center fuel tank gauge that is not used. Unless someone can find a separate N1 setting and readout, or just built the readout using the SDK then I am stuck with a nonfunctioning N1.

On the Speedbreak I think AirWrench may have messed up my initial setting on the spoilers and I will go back in and see what I can set.

W Key. I'll have to look into this one, it is not defined in the panel or maybe it is and I just do not see where it is defined. I'll have to check into these. Have you tried the VC? It provides and excellent view for landing and the seat is adjustable.

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-KenG

Ken,

N1. I think all you need to do is change the default from zero to 100 (I think it is adjustable. I have not looked to be sure.). Then at least when you press N1 on the panel, you get full power. It is not perfect. If this won't work, then let's not mess with it. [edit] I looked and could not find the variable that I thought was there.

Regarding the MFD, yes I have known that all along. In fact I spotted it while flying the Airbus. It is annoying because those dots are supposed to mean something. It makes me appreciate--a little at least--why we go through so much trouble on RW certifications, Imagine what we would be flying if we didn't do that.

I have tried the VC, but I really don't like it. In FSX, I can never see what I need to see without moving things around and I don't want to have to do that when I am landing. I prefer hitting W. I am constantly going over checklists and airspeeds etc while on approach. Honestly, I don't see how anyone uses the VCs. They drive me crazy. Then when you land, you are looking at the RW center line instead of down the rw. Maybe I just don't get it. Anyway, I am always surprised when I hit W and see a Cessna cockpit. Non-critical.

On the Localizer, I think the cure was the airspeed, the flaps and the distance to the airport at intercept. I continue to have good tracking when these are managed properly. I have one more report to file. I will do that in a different post.

On the airspeed tape, after further observation, I have come to believe that is working correctly. The only issue is there is no stick shake when the overspeed warning comes on. Maybe that is what you were referring to as a nofix.

 

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

G550 Test Flight Report - 15 MAR 2008. (Flight 5)

Cross Country Test Flight
Martinsville (KMTV) - Roanoke (KROA)

ILS Performance. Very good. This approach was longer than at KMSY. I intercepted at 3800 ft for a rwy elevation of 1175. 200 kts and flaps 8 on the intercept. No issues.

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

Copied from a previous post for easy reference:

I think testing on these should wait until we fix the drag.

I am out of stuff to do. I think I will just fly around a bit and do some general testing looking for whatever I see looks odd.

Let me know when you find work for me.

----------- 

Next will be single engine operations testing. I did do some testing during the initial Alpha version of the FDE, but with all of the changes I have made a retest is due. Here are the number I found:

V1 132 KIAS

Vr 145 KIAS

V2 158 KIAS

 I did perform a V1 cut at about 135 KIAS and was able to continue to accelerate to 145, rotate and climb. Now that I have added a little more drag to the equation this really needs to be revisited.

 

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

G550 Fuel Flow

A thought. The 747 has a fuel calculator and pushback gauge that is freeware. Since we have a faulty FF gauge on this one, that guage might come in real handy on long trips.

I just departed Roanoke, VA from a 5813 ft rwy with full fuel (climbed over a 3000 ft mountain at the end of the rwy) direct Amsterdam which is only about 3500 miles away. The drag is affecting performance pretty significantly. I have a pretty stiff tailwind and I am projecting it being tight on fuel. But I don't have an accurate FF meter so I can't really tell. The temp gauge only has fuel quantities.

The point of all this is that this is really a cool plane.

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

Mike,

 I just sent two files to my skydrive space. You will need both files to unzip for some reason now I have gone over 50MB and had to span the .zip file. This is the entire refurbushed aircraft panel and all.

I'm calling this version Beta 2.0 Considering all of the work and changes that have gone into versions 1.0 to 1.x (I lost track now) I figured it was time to just resend the entire airplane to the server.

 
On the overhead panel is a fuel flow calculator that works much better than the fuelflow on the EICAS. By clicking the little white button in the bottom right corner of the gauge it will provide fuel burned and time to exhaustion.

 I changed the drag profile putting more drag on the flaps and removing it from the airframe. I also fixed the spoilers (wow they had gotten really far off!) The reason for the drag on the flaps is to keep power on the engines for landing, otherwise the airplane will nose up if you chop the power. Just in case our pilots gets a little high on approach I wanted to make this airplane easier to fly. I may have sacerfised single engine performance but we will have to decide. Easier to land or single engine performance.

 I stiffend the landing gear so you can plop this baby on to an aircraft carrier now. I also dampened out any possible bouncing. In all this airplane should easily make a deck landing and I have drove her right into the runway without crashing now. If this does not fix the collapsing gear, nothing will.

 http://cid-839fbc8d9e9023fb.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Public?uc=2
 

 I think this airplane is ready for the gambit of the world testing full range of weather and runway conditions. Time to start having some fun!

 

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-KenG

UPDATED: 16MAR08

Bug Report: This is what I am tracking for bugs on the G550:

1. Climb to Altitude - Should be fixed. Note you should not be able to climb straight to FL510
   
2. Spoiler Pitch - Fixed
   
3. Gear Collapsing - Fixed
4. Gear Bounce - Fixed
   
5. Autopilot - Fixed
   
6. W Key - NonCritical Looks like nothing I can do.
   
7. Airspeed Tape - NonCritical nofix
   
8. AoA Indicator - Noncritical nofix
9. N1 Setting - Noncritical nofix I added the knob.
   
10. Engine Quiting - Noncritical nofix - autostart not authorized.
11. Landing Gear Indicators - Fixed in v1.3 used different gauge 
12. Radio - Fixed -> Larger popup in v1.3
    
13. Overspeed Warning - Fixed -> Overspeed warning from FSX seems to come on a appropriate time. 
14. Fuel Burn - Fixed

On climbing, after about FL350 you will need to reduce climb to between 1000 - 1500 fpm. Above FL450 climb will be about 500 to 1000 fpm. Depending on temperature and weight will determine maximum altitude and you may have to step climb like a Boeing 747. I think this is correct as I remember Cessna stating with its C750 that is was "actually" able to climb direct to FL510 unlike the "competition." Thus I assume that the competition is Gulfstream and that in fact the G550 can not climb direct to FL510. If this is the case then I think I have the altitude modeled correctly.

 

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-KenG

Ken,

When I try to open the big file with winzip it tells me it is not a valid zip file. The extension is z01. I tried changing it to zip, but no joy. No problem with the smaller file.

[edit] actually it looks like unzipping the small one also unzipped the large one. I will try to load the aircraft.

1. Are you sure you used winzip to create it?

2. Are you aware that you have multiple inbedded zip files in the download? If those are not needed, and it looks like to me they never get unzipped, then you might be able to eliminate them. (about 7 meg I think.)

Let me know and I will try again.

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

Mike,

 That is how spanning works. The file .z01 is called for by the file .zip. All you need to make sure of is that both .zip and .z01 are in the same location when you unzip the entire archive. Do not try to unzip .z01 or change its name. Just open the file called .zip and all will work fine.

 The files inside that are .zip are actually .cab gauge files and must remain in their native state to be used correctly. I could eliminate 3 of the gauges since they are MS defaults, however I may decide to go through a recolor the gauges to make them fit the color scheme of the panel better. If this is the case I want to make sure that I keep them separate from the rest of my MSFS gauges.

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-KenG

G550 Tesf Flight Report 16MAR08 (Flight 1).

KXNA - KMCI
RWW

N1 Button - nice!!

Fuel Gauge. It is pretty small and I really have to strain to see it. Making is just a little bigger to use all the space where it is would really be a help for these old eyes. So that is what the little button is for. Nice gauge and exactly what I hoped for.

ILS Capture and Intercept. No issues at 200kts and flaps 8 with GS intercept at 1900 ft above airport elevation.

Stability. I had a 98 kt crosswind blowing from 270 at FL300 on a heading of about 360 and I was getting bounced around a lot. This was RWW, so I need to do some more observations on this. It is probably not an issue. No way to tell if it was turbulence or just a little unstable.

Two thumbs up on everything.

Ken, is there anything in particular you want me to verify? I thought I would do

• another climb to FL510. Do we have a climb profile? I know you can't do it with 100% fuel.
• another range test.
• the engine out tests from a few posts back
• continue to work the ILS
• anything else?

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver