WestWind Airlines

I wil add my 2 cents to all this. I have spent a lot of time making sure that Ken's version of the G550 has the flight characteristics that it is supposed to have. That it climbs to the right atlititude. That it has the range it is supposed to have, and on and on and on.. In my opinion, Ken has a very good aircraft here.

Many of the airplanes in our livery have some pretty significant issues. The FS9 GSV was unusable when I first started flying it and I just parked it. It was so tail heavy that you could not steer it on the ground. I didn't invest all those hours just to see those problems reappear in a version that has not gone through the same testing.

John, I mean no disrespect here at all. You obviously have a great reputation. It is really an issue of timing. I would really hate to switch horses in mid-stream and then find out that the new version has problems with range or alttude, or any of the myriad of other things we have spent so much time testing. And I am really not very excited about redoing all the testing. It was a lot of work.

I appreciate all the work you have both put into this. I think the timing of all this is very unfortunate. I would like to see us stick with Ken's model unless there are really significant reasons not to. I will let others decide that. This has been a project that has been in the forum for weeks. Ken made his intentions known, asked for help, got it, and we have all put a lot of hours into this. In my opinion, we have one of the best planes in the FSX livery.

Just my .02.

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

Again I say.... I was able to open Ken's files only yesterday. 

Mike,

After reading several of your posts It seems to me that you are rather rash with your assumptions. Ken and I have a good working relationship. I have not tried to stop Ken from making his FDE and panel. As far as Ken's FDE, it needs some work at FL500. It pitches up at about 35 degrees. However I think his basic file seems to do well otherwise. If I publish a freeware panel to WWAL or the whole FS community then that is my business.

 Ken,

If I make any changes to your FDE I will post the code and you can use it if you wish. If I do publish a panel as freeware I will do it seperatly.

 

 

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John. I will say again, that I meant no offense. My comments are about the process. I can see that you and Ken have a good relationship and your help is welcome.

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

We need to remember that we do answer to a higher authority. When Ken was the lead, I always got all my projects approved by him as well as the chief pilot ( Ed Ward).

Now that Kim is is our lead then it will be Kim who sets the standards. If Kim overlooks something then I will bring it to his attention. 

BTW Ed Ward is a real GSV pilot and has always had a special interest in the GSV for WWAL. You might want to run this project by him for the final tests.

 

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John I agree 100%. That is really why we have this thread. So that anyone and everyone who has an interest in the project can have input. As I said in a previous post, I will let others decide our ultimate direction. I just wanted to add my thoughts.

I also want to be sure that you understand that I value and appreciate your contribution to this project. If I have left you with any other impression, then you have my deepest apologies. I think my comments stem from being a little confused about our present direction more than anything. I don't know which aircraft you have worked on at WW and nothing I have said was intened to be a personal attack on you or your work.

I believe we have a very good fleet of aircraft. I also believe that the process of thoroughly testing what we publish makes them better. We have less of a likelyhood that we will publish something that won't fly. And we have a couple of airplanes like that in the fleet. Again, I don't know who worked on them and that isn't the point. I like the testing that we have done on this bird. And I like the fact that you, who obviously know a lot about aircraft design, have chosen to add your expertise to the project.

One last thought. It may be, after all is said and done, that what you publish is better than what we have done so far. If that is the case, then the only smart thing for us to do is recognize that and use the best model. If it tuns out that way, I can live with it. I just want us to make sure we think through it carefully before we arrive at that conclusion.

Again, thanks for your contribution. I look forward to working with you.

 

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

All right gang, lot's of activity here since yesterday.  I think we should carry on with what Ken has developed, my feeling is that it is close to completion and in really good shape.  It sounds to me like John was working on the same model (lider designs).  Whether we want to use Ken's panel or John's well I don't have a preference either way at this point.  John has stated that the FDE we have right now looks good so let's stay the course with that one, tweak what you guys need to and move forward.  I agree with John that we need to get Ed's input on this thing before completion also........I'll send him a note pointing him to this thread......

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EHAM-YSSY B772LR

I think we are on the right track. John, I like the panel. Its nice and crisp. I would have to fly it I think to be able to tell which I like better. Ken has added some things like n1 setting knob and autobrakes. I can't tell if yours has them or not. Bottom line is I like it and I am OK with either panel.

I think Ed needs to come on down and pick us all up and let us see how one of these really flies.

I have had my say, so press on. It looks good.

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

Ok,

Here is where I am at:

UPDATED: 21MAR08 -> FDE version 2.1.1 Panel version 2.1

Bug Report: This is what I am tracking for bugs on the G550:

1. Climb to Altitude - Fixed
2. W Key - Fixed
3. AoA Indicator - Noncritical nofix
4. N1 Setting - Noncritical nofix I added the knob.
5. Panel Lighting - Fixed
   
6. Spoiler Pitch - Fixed
   
7. Gear Collapsing - Fixed
8. Gear Bounce - Fixed Should be noted that off-field will still cause bounce, some airports did not define all of their taxiways correctly... PADK
   
9. Autopilot - Fixed
   
10. Airspeed Tape - NonCritical nofix
    
11. Engine Quiting - Noncritical nofix - autostart not authorized.
12. Landing Gear Indicators - Fixed in v1.3 used different gauge 
13. Radio - Fixed -> Larger popup in v1.3
    
14. Overspeed Warning - Fixed -> Overspeed warning from FSX seems to come on a appropriate time. 
15. Fuel Burn - Fixed

Once Ed gives her a through run through I think I will be ready to call her Beta 3 and send her out to the masses for a week of open beta testing. Depending on how that goes I will package the airplane with Installmaker and have her ready for deployment to the website. The only issue I see so far is going to be getting this onto the website. With the sounds she exceeds 50MB, both my SKYDRIVE and my e-mail single file limit.

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-KenG

I also have to add that I think having WWA Test Pilots do a once over on a project is an excellent final step prior to releasing an aircraft. It is not necessary for every release, i.e. repaints of default aircraft or repaints of commercial software. This is the second time that I have worked a project and had someone perform the test piloting for me and I am very happy with the end result both times. This will be the first time I have attempted an Open Beta after primary test flying so I am interested to see how that goes.

Mike, there is one last step and that is looking at the checklist (it is in the electronic book) and making notes based on your test flights. Also since the checklist is from a real world Gulfstream (a GIV if I remember correctly) you may wish to note when the checklist gets boring with details that are not modeled in the aircraft.  Also since I know that not everyone of our pilots have the Chuck Yeager eyesight that I have (yes I have been tested at 20/10) please comment on the size of the font.

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-KenG

Ken G:

Mike, there is one last step and that is looking at the checklist (it is in the electronic book) and making notes based on your test flights. Also since the checklist is from a real world Gulfstream (a GIV if I remember correctly) you may wish to note when the checklist gets boring with details that are not modeled in the aircraft.  Also since I know that not everyone of our pilots have the Chuck Yeager eyesight that I have (yes I have been tested at 20/10) please comment on the size of the font.

Ken, I assume the checklist in the electronic book (in the documentation) is the same checklist that is in the knee pad in the cockpit. Do you want to leave the items in the checklist that the sim flyer will not be able to use or do you want to delete them. If you want to delete them, do you want me to make a good checklist, put it in a text file and email it to you? My initial reaction to the checklist is that there are a lot of items I don't know what the acronyms mean and unless I am mistaken, don't have functioning buttons/switches in the sim.

I am currently enroute to PTRO. Later this afternoon, I should be able to install the new model and work through the checklists.

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

G550 Test Flight Report 21MAR08

Testing:
New Release V FDE 2.1.1 Panel 2.1
Checklists
Reference document

Procedure. Downloaded the 3 modules.
1. documentation - ok except all the pages are separate pages. Should we not have one page from which we can link to them all. I can do this if you like.
2. G550 - ok
3 Sound - nothing there. I took this to be what was intended.

Moved the documentation folder into the WestWind G5500 folder.
Copied the sound folder from the previous version into the G550 folder.
Backed up the old G550 folder and replaced it with the new one.
Loaded MSFS and shut everything off and saved the flight.
turned MSFS off and restarted it. Loaded the flight. OK

Squaks:

1. New fuel flow gauge does not operate on AUX (APU) power.

2. GPS and Autopilot Inoperative on either battery or AUX power.

2a. [EDIT] Generators 1 and 2 read negative zero DC amps (AUX PWR-off or on).

2b. [EDIT] Radios inoperative (AUX Pwr-off or on).

3. Autobrakes don't go to MAX setting.

4. Reference Page on the kneeboard, when displayed as an HTML document, has the title of Beech King Air. This is an HTML "TITLE=BEECH KING AIR" issue, I can fix this if you don't konw HTML.

5. Reference Page Information. The G550 documents say flap settings are 10/20/39 not 8/20/40 as indicated in the Reference Page document..

6. Checklists. There are numerous items which don't apply to MSFS and/or our model. I made a printout and marked through the ones that don't apply--about 75% of them. I was testing the checklist when I realized the problems with the FF Gauge, Autopilot and GPS. I would like to get those items fixed before I continue work on the checklist. My intention is to create a replacement checklist. BTW, the checklists appear to be for the GIV. If you like, I can make the checklist with an index so we can link to each section from the kneepad.

7. Enunciator panel. There is one red and one green warning indication on the enunciator panel which stay on constantly. They are too small to read. There seem to be two enunciator panels on which I am able to see that lights are on but cannot read them. I noticed these before, but kept forgetting to say anything. Do we want an enunciator panel that can be read?

8. Nutcracker. The checklist refers to a nutcracker. Neither I nor Wikipedia know that term.

It is really looking good!

Let me know when I can move forward. I have not flown it yet.

 

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

Mike Gibbs:

3 Sound - nothing there. I took this to be what was intended.

Squaks:

1. New fuel flow gauge does not operate on AUX (APU) power.

2. GPS and Autopilot Inoperative on either battery or AUX power.

2a. [EDIT] Generators 1 and 2 read negative zero DC amps (AUX PWR-off or on).

2b. [EDIT] Radios inoperative (AUX Pwr-off or on).

3. Autobrakes don't go to MAX setting.

4. Reference Page on the kneeboard, when displayed as an HTML document, has the title of Beech King Air. This is an HTML "TITLE=BEECH KING AIR" issue, I can fix this if you don't konw HTML.

5. Reference Page Information. The G550 documents say flap settings are 10/20/39 not 8/20/40 as indicated in the Reference Page document..

6. Checklists. There are numerous items which don't apply to MSFS and/or our model. I made a printout and marked through the ones that don't apply--about 75% of them. I was testing the checklist when I realized the problems with the FF Gauge, Autopilot and GPS. I would like to get those items fixed before I continue work on the checklist. My intention is to create a replacement checklist. BTW, the checklists appear to be for the GIV. If you like, I can make the checklist with an index so we can link to each section from the kneepad.

7. Enunciator panel. There is one red and one green warning indication on the enunciator panel which stay on constantly. They are too small to read. There seem to be two enunciator panels on which I am able to see that lights are on but cannot read them. I noticed these before, but kept forgetting to say anything. Do we want an enunciator panel that can be read?

8. Nutcracker. The checklist refers to a nutcracker. Neither I nor Wikipedia know that term.

SOUND: The sound is in its own seperate sound.zip file. The sound was the largest file thus I put it in its own .zip. You will have to unzip and manually create the sound folder and place the sound files in there. This was done so that John could download the file.

ELECTRICAL: I relooked the entire electrical system and added some lines to it. I will have to see if it makes a difference.

AUTOBREAKS: Changed the autobreaks to 4.

CHECKLISTS: I'll let you continue to work with the checklists. I have no idea of what the nutcracker is. Maybe Kim or Ed can give us a clue on this. King Airs, Bells, Sikorskys, Cessnas, and Pipers that I have flown did not have nutcrackers.

 Annunciator Panel:  I will see about putting it into its own popup panel.

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-KenG

I have no idea on nutcrackers.......as far as I'm concerned it's a ballet that my daughter dances in every December........

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EHAM-YSSY B772LR

OK, I tried again to download the sound folder and this time it worked. I guess IE was just doing something wierd, even though I tried several times before.

I will download the new G550 folder and try it again a little later today.

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver

G550 Test Flight Report 22MAR08

All the same problems I mentioned in my last report are still there. I looked at the autobrake setting. It was still 3. I changed it to 4 and the problem went away. It does not appear to me that the G550 download has been changed.

[EDIT] The FF Guage appears to be working now. The GPS, autopilot and radios are still inoperative even with battery on, apu on and all generators on.

[EDIT] In the aircraft.cfg file, the autopilot is tied to the main bus and the flap motor is tied to the avionics bus. It appears to me that someone switched these by mistake. Changing it back does not affect any of the issues above.

[EDIT] I keep forgetting to say this, but I assume you know that the thumbnail for aircraft when you select if from the MSFS aircraft list is missing. I get an airplane with a big questionmark on it.

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WWA1702 Senior Command Captain +3
RWP SEL Instrument Rating (almost)
WW Test Pilot
Monster Driver